Questions about the Bible

westsider

These are some of the questions I've been thinking for a long time.

1) The Bible talks about the absolute truth. The Bible said that human are not perfect, i.e. they can make mistake. People said that the authors were "under the guidance of god".

How can a mistake-prone author write about a book that talks about the *absolute* truth?

2) The Bible consists of 37 books in the Old Testament and 29 books in the New Testament. Over all, there are >4000 manuscripts.

How do people know that this is the 100% complete collection? And how do people know that each and every single one of the books are 100% correct?

3) The Bible has been translated by men. And the Bible said that human makes mistake.

How can people pick up a version, say English, and claim the *absolute* truth?

westsider

My question is about its claim of "absolute" truth, i.e. Zero error. If those who write the bible could be wrong, how can the literature claim the "absolute" truth?

I believe that our universe has certain underlying structure, but I am comfortable in talking about such structure only up to a certain accuracy.

The air does have the "right" balance of compounds, but such balance is "right" within certain accuracy. 0.01% more hydrogen dioxide is not going to hurt us.

Classical mechanics is "right" only above the de Brolie's wavelength. After that, quantum theory's accuracy is restricted by the Heisenberg's principle.

The "absolute" truth is a huge claim. The Bible makes such claim, and simultaneously says that the error-prone author is "correct under God's guidance". It really appears as a circular argument to me.

If I believe in God before believing in the Bible, and God himself is described by the Bible, it seems like my belief is based on nothing.

[ Last edited by westsider on 2005-8-17 at 11:48 AM ]

westsider

Originally posted by imaimashi at 2005-8-17 11:59 AM:
due to my poor english,actually i d...

Sorry I dunno how to write/type Chinese.

But what you're saying is "Bible is correct because I believe in God". But what is God? God Himself is described by the Bible. So you would then say "I believe in God because the Bible of correct."

So it is a circular argument.

westsider

Well, I was brought up in a Christian family. So I have read some Bible.

And the teaching of Christianity has always been about "faith". The arguments, including the above, have always been based on "faith".

When it came down to it, its always "God is real because the Bible is correct", and then "the Bible is correct because of God's pressence."

So do you believe in God or the Bible first?

Also, something 99.99% true is not "absolutely" true.

I am just looking for some rational basis for this whole thing.

[ Last edited by westsider on 2005-8-17 at 12:35 PM ]

westsider

Originally posted by x_integration_x at 2005-8-17 12:54 PM:


I doubt that anyone in this wor...

So how would you answer if I ask you "why do you believe in God?"

I mean, people believe in a religion until they switch to another one. People believed in the Crusade and Inquisition until... they believed no more. People believed in classical mechanics until experiments proved otherwise. Even engineers believed shrinking the ICs until 90nm the technology exhitbits tunneling effects.

Can one be comfortable in claiming to "believed in the absolute truth" without completely justify the "truth"?

I mean life is short. And peope dedicate their lives to their religion. What if you turn around and found out that life is just a bunch of random variables?

westsider

Originally posted by imaimashi at 2005-8-17 01:32 PM:
人生永恆咖

how do you know? because of the Bible said so.
why do you believe in the Bible? because God is real.
why do you believe in God? because what the Bible said is true.
why do you believe in the Bible? because God is real.
why do you believe in God? because what the Bible said is true.
.
.
.
and there's no better justification?

westsider

Originally posted by imaimashi at 2005-8-17 03:22 PM:
why i believe god?since i have tried his presence
why i believe god?i believe bible
why i believe bible?something that is truth,and futher proving make me believe bible description of god is truth
not circular

I am ASKING why is the Bible absolutely true? Don't just tell me that it is true.

westsider

Originally posted by imaimashi at 2005-8-17 03:37 PM:
not absolutely
but it is quite believable.
believe or not just u choose!
if u ask why
i can only said,Noah,jesus,some prediction,so i think it is believable

I'm not gonna make a choice between beliving or not beliving, I'm not gonna make a decision until I am convinced either way.

So what you saying is, the Bible is "quite believable".

And you 100% believe that this "quite belivable" Bible is "absolutely true"?

westsider

So, the best answer to the above questions is: faith?!

So I need to
1) "Experience God."
2) somehow make the connection between that experience and the Christian God
3) somehow make the connection between the Christian God and the complete validity of the Bible

is this actually what you guys did?

westsider

1) If the whole world and universe are a sequence of random variables... if you look form the probability point of view, it will be a number like 2to the power of more than 30. A very very very small chance. It would take even a bigger faith to believe this theory than believe the world was created by GOD.

But do you have to believe in a view that require "less faith"? Can you just wait and see? I am waiting to see, and I am more comfortable with looking into the probability point of view.

In 1935, Einstein et al published the "EPR paradox". They tried to use some probabilistic interpretation to question the statistical nature of Quantum Mechanics. In 1964, Bell proved by the "Bell's Theorem", that EPR's probabilistic framwork is absolutely wrong.

I am more interested with something that can be rigorously verified/disproved. Simply because I would have a right/wrong answer at the end of the day.

2) Arguing BIBLE is absolute truth or "99.99 truth" ( I have to clarify that I mean 99.99% truth is the translation) is somewhat waste of time, because if you do not believe the BIBLE is the record that was recording history of man and the relationshiip between GOD and man. Then there is no point of going forward. For myself, the more I read the BIBLE, the more I found out how GOD intervene man's life through out human's history. The Bible did not only say how great of successful when those man follow GOD. Instead, it shows how weak human are, LOOK at Solomon, David, Jacob, most of them were so called great person in the BIBLE.. Look at what they have done in their whole life. The Bible did not hide their short fall. Instead it kept on stating human's shortfall.
If you can read the Bible with an open mind and look at it from a more historic and human sense ( Like reading a novel). You will find it very intersting.

Are you suggesting that the Bible must be interpreted subjectively? Then how would you know that your perception, and thus your belief, is 100% correct?

The subjective interpretation of the Bible led to bad things such as the Crusades and Inquisition. The believers didn't know that they're wrong back then. How do you know that you're right in the present?

To take a step further, one subjective interpretation is the determination of the "context" of the Bible. Where does it apply? "1984" by George Orwell is a fiction that correctly reflected the current state of Western Society and predicted future social changes. And a collection of Chinese literatures recorded Chinese history from way back. So, how would you take the Bible beyond a "good history book" and a "good observation of social evolution"?

Apparently the Bible has none or very little contradition to science or culture, because it has always been interpreted subjectively. One reason the Bible is accepted by republic, monarchical, and deomocratic society is that the Bible can be interpreted subjectively to fit what people thinks.

3) I always think, if there is no GOD, then what are we doing on earth, why do we have to do what we ae doing now?  Life is so short? Why don't I enjoy my life while I can? Why do I have to be a god man? WHy do I have to abide all the rules set by human, both moral and legal rules? I should enjoy myself with my maximum ability. It does not matter you have religious believeor not, but you have to admitt everyone has a moral standard...

Religions have heavy influence on the moral and legal standard of our society. Just look at gay marriage in America. And moral standard is directly affected by your up-bringing. Most people believe in what their parents told them.

The "moral standard" you're abided to has nothing to do with religion. If you go back 1000 years in China, pre-maritial sex is against anyone's "moral standard". But if you go to Amsterdam right now, I bet every teenager is looking for sex.

WHy don't we just do whatever we like?

Alot of people do, but most religious peope don't.

Why did we have conscience and not other living creature?

Even if conscience exist, how can you conclusively link it to God and not other things?

4) Believe in GOD, like a sounds, it is a believe, believe involve faith, something that cannot be caluclate or proof. However, it does involve experience. I firmly believe if anyone really want to experience GOD, he/she can and will. But man are too busy in other things, making a lving, having a better living, a lot of other things to chase, and not enough time...... And the main reason is, man wants to be their own god, we are all afraid if we let God intervene our life, there will be a lot of things that we can not do......... What happen if we slack off at work, or got drunk... and many many other things....... there will be a lot of rules that will bound us from enjoying our life......

I can tell you this, I felt the same too before...... but more I know theGOD we believe and His plan, the less concern and worries I have.... because  when you really read the BIBLE, GOD said it very clear, HE wants us all to haveJOY , not just after our earthly life, but NOW. BIBLE is not a book of laws, but rather a book of resource to find JOY and resource to live.

But beliving in Christainity requires a 100% change in your values. They belive that the suffering at the present does not matter. that what really matters is the eternal life. I mean if you don't care about what you cared before, obviously you're gonna be more joyful?

Psychologically, they baiscally say that "I won't worry about all these because God will take care of it." Of course they're gonna be more happy.

And most importantly, the belief gives your a better life, no doubt. But how do you know that that it is the truth just because of that? The truth could be a bad thing. The "truth" and the "perfect remedy for life" are mutually exclusive.

Do you believe in History of man? Do you believe the persons that write the history were telling the truth? Do you believe the existence of ROman Empire? Greek culture? Chinese? Indian? Were all those people that record their history are telling the truth?

I don't. That's why I don't care about any subjective studies. If you looking at how certain nations are writing their modern history textbooks, you know not to believe any subjective resources.

In today's world, sometimes, we can't even believe what we see...... so in whatever way, everything involves a certain degree of faith......

But why you have to believe in something? I have THREE options: 1)to believe 2) to believe against 3) not to make a decision. I have THREE, not TWO.

In the BIBLE case, I believe everything that record in there is Truth.

But can you tell me why? I want to know.

Make it short, if you read the Bible with a critical view and not even try to have a objective mind.. than the BIBLE means nothing to yu but just anoother book..... but if you have a open mind and willing to see whether the Word in the BIBLE is powerful or not, then I am sure you wll find amazing result......

I can take any book and interpret it in alot of ways. The question is: should I?

Why should I figuratively interpret the Bible, and apply such interpretation in a "subjectively determined context"??


Thank you very much.